Nov. 1 Pentagon briefing

Where the Iraq War and water boarding remain topics of discussion, the Pentagon briefing yesterday contained some interesting material.

Q Mr. Secretary, I'd like to ask you about Iraq. Clearly, the security conditions have improved in some respects in many parts of Iraq, and General Odierno this morning gave us a fairly comprehensive overview of the changes in the security front. And in fact, he said that it had created the conditions for political accommodation and reconciliation.

My question to you is, where are those signs of reconciliation at the national level? Are you satisfied that that is moving in the right direction on that level?

SEC. GATES: Well, we still would like to see the Iraqi government pass some of these key pieces of legislation. We've talked here before, and it's not new news that we would like to see the de- Ba'athification law passed, even though de-Ba'athification is taking place on the ground as thousands of Sunnis are admitted back into the army and the police. We would like to see a hydrocarbon law passed, even though hydrocarbon revenues are being shared with the provinces. We -- I -- trying to predict when legislation will pass is a very risky business, and I won't go down that road. But I do think that we are seeing particularly some steps forward in terms of the outreach from, for example, the -- Sheikh Ahmed in Anbar reaching out to Shi'a sheikhs in other parts of the -- in other parts of the country. And so you're beginning to see some relationships being established.

You know, we continue to believe that you need to have reconciliation both at the local level and at the national level, and so we continue to press the Iraqi government to get some of this legislation passed.

Q But much the same has been said for several months, even before General Petraeus gave his assessment to Congress in September. And can you point to any gains that have been made on the reconciliation part at the national level, or are you just going to keep waiting?

SEC. GATES: I would say -- I would say that as the politics -- my view is that as the politics develop at the local level, they in turn are beginning to put pressure on politicians at the national level. And so while we haven't seen specific acts of reconciliation such as the particular legislation we've talked about, you're beginning to see political pressures on the leadership in different ways to try and get something done and to get these laws passed, provincial elections and so on.

So you know, we've continued to work it. There are a lot of -- as General Odierno undoubtedly briefed, there are a lot of very positive things happening in various places around the country. We would like to see the national politics catch up with everything else that's going on.
(U.S. Department of Defense)

Note that the question clearly contains an implicit acknowledgment of improved security in Iraq even while it asks about political progress. Secretary Gates answered correctly, I think, in noting that local politics contains the key to the national political solutions that we hope to see in Iraq. Another question popped up on the issue of security a bit later.

Q Back to the levels of violence in Iraq, a pretty remarkable series of statistics that General Odierno presented -- things like level of IEDs at their lowest number since October of 2004; U.S. combat deaths lowest since February of 2004. Do you see this trend as being sustainable? Are we now in fact winning in Iraq? Or is this going to go the way of other maybe not quite as consistent trends, but we've seen other blips downward in violence in the past that have been followed, of course, by more bloodshed.

SEC. GATES: Well, I think that we have certainly been successful in significantly improving the security situation in Iraq, and I would say that what we need to do is continue this effort and ensure that the economic reconstruction and development follows. We clearly have more work to do with the police, as do the Iraqis, and we still need to get some of this basic legislation that I was talking about earlier done. So this is not just a matter of the extraordinary success that we've had in the security arena and the local reconciliation, but these other elements have to be addressed as well.

And I think we're making progress on them. The PRTs have been very successful. They've only been fully deployed for a relatively short period of time, so there's still a lot of institution building that needs to be done. So it's still going to take time to get this done, but clearly events are headed -- the direction in Iraq is headed in a significantly more positive direction today than it was five or six months ago.

Q Yeah, but you're not ready to say we're winning, that the surge is working.

SEC. GATES: I think those end up being loaded words. I think we have been very successful. We need to continue being successful.

PRTs are Provincial Reconstruction Teams.

The journalists made sure to ask about water boarding since the Mukasey hearings have put it back in the news.

Q My question's actually for Admiral Mullen, sir. What is your professional military opinion about whether U.S. military personnel should be ever involved in waterboarding activities? I'm not asking whether the military does it or not, but I would like both of you gentlemen -- do you believe it's appropriate for U.S. military personnel to be involved in waterboarding? What is -- would both of you say, do you believe that waterboarding is or is not torture?

ADM. MULLEN: My involvement in this up to this point has been to look at what has been described as the Article III level, and I've been very comfortable that that's where we should be with respect to the kinds of activities that are involved with individuals that we take on the battlefield. I haven't really been involved on the legal side of this, and from the military standpoint, these are the kinds of activities specifically that military personnel -- I would not expect them to be involved in with respect to waterboarding.

But I'm also not enough of an expert with respect to the specifics in terms of it to really take it any further than that and the decisions that have been made with respect to that. I think it's important for us as military members to maintain the high ground with respect to activities that involved prisoners or detainees.

Q Admiral, just to make sure I have not misunderstood anything you've said.

ADM. MULLEN: Sure.

Q Let me make sure. You are saying that you believe U.S. military personnel should not participate or be involved in any activities involving waterboarding? If I --

SEC. GATES: Let me go ahead and answer instead.

Q I'm sorry. I really would like Admiral Mullen --

SEC. GATES: Well --

Q -- to make sure I understood what he said.

SEC. GATES: Let me -- since I actually, in this area, have been in my job longer --

ADM. MULLEN: Right.

SEC. GATES: -- (chuckles) -- than the admiral has, one of these rare instances. The fact is it's not a permitted technique under the Army Field Manual, and therefore, no member of the U.S. military is allowed to do it, period.

Q Well, let me take that one step further, then. I'm asking whether you believe, since you're both senior representatives of the U.S. government, do you believe that waterboarding is torture? Mr. Secretary?

SEC. GATES: I am not going to wander into that legal thicket.

That was the end of that topic in this instance.

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